If Rover went to the DC, having accepted the invite, he would probably be more intelligent than all the speakers combined. It would only bore him silly. Tell him to give it a miss.
Cheers
moggy lover
JoinedPosts by moggy lover
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15
They knocked this morning, dog was NOT happy.
by Odrade inthis morning an older gentleman knocked on our door to give us the leaflet invite to the d.c. which is being held locally this year.
my husband answered because i was still in my oh-so-sexy stretched out hot pink pajamas.
neither of us recognized him, but i knew the name because my parents talk about him sometimes (friends.
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24
Is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society an Anti-Christ Organization?
by OUTLAW inthe wbt$ certainly puts themselves as mediator between god and mankind..very unchristian.....in many cases the wbt$ would have us ignore the words of jesus and have us rely on them,for any meaning the bible may have..as in the case of the september 15th 1968 watchtower artical "why are you looking foreward to 1975??
?..the writer tells us "this is no time to be toying with the words of jesus!
"..the end is very near..this was on a thread by another poster a few days ago.....we all know that armageddon did not arrive as predicted by the wbt$ in 1975..but..to work up the 1975 frenzy,jw`s were told to ignore the words of jesus.....is telling people to ignore the words of jesus,anti-christ behavior?.....outlaw
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moggy lover
I believe that the WT Leadership have systematically and with demonic cunning expunged all meaningful application to Christ both, in their liturgy as well as their writings. Christ has become merely and adjunct to faith rather than the application of it.
One expresses Christian verities in the form of recognizing the role that Christ plays in the application of this faith. Interestingly, Christ Himself laid down the protocols of worship. When one honours the Son, one honours the Father. It is not the other way around. If one honours the Father, no expression of Scripture permits this to apply automatically to the Son. When one worships the Father alone, one is alone in one's worship. So when True Christians praise and glorify the Son, they are aware that this applies to the Father as well in equal portion. This is something that the WTS has failed to understand. It is somehow conceived that the centrality of Christ that is accorded by True Christians somehow diminishes the place of the Father in worship. This is simply not so. The honour that is required to be applied to the Father is done through the establishment of the place of the Son. The NT does not sanction the bestowal of any honour to the Father without first considering the Son. One does not honour the Son to the exclusion of the Father.
But even here, the place of the Father has been expunged. It is assumed, without any convincing proof, that the use of the mantra like repetition of the word "jehovah" somehow ensures the identity of the Father. The supposed link between jehovah and the Father, is tenuous, at best. In reality, the Father has Himself been reduced to an adjunct, displaced by this someone evidently called "jehovah"
The WTS gives the impression that the name has an ancient pedigree, going back to the dawn of man, and relevant even today. That the name was relevant only in a tribal connotation of a people confined to a sliver of land in the Middle East, and discarded when the message of the Bible went out to the wider world with the attachment of a Grander Name on which salvation was to be attenuated, is casually ignored by the WT Leadership. The impression is established that the 1C AD Christians used this "name" extensively, and indeed the discarding of it ushered in a Great Apostasy in the 2C AD. Somehow, the existence of an unknown remnant of faithful ones who carried the Flame down through the corridors of history till the time of Russell, has begun to take on mythic proportions and is clung to, more in fantasy than reality by today's R&F.
In fact there is simply no proof that this was ever so. There is no evidence whatever that apostolic Christianity and afterward ever attached any importance to the pronunciation of the Sacred Name. It is a misplaced belief of those who put their trust in unscrupulous men who exploit this notion. In fact the records of the early Christians are extensive and detailed and no such evidence of Sacred Name usage is available. In fact we even have a piece of literature written in about 90AD 1Clement, which details the practical aspects of 1C AD Christian worship at about the time John was writing his words. And no mention is ever made of any reference to the importance of the name "jehovah" in the primitive Christian community. When 1C AD Christians evangelized the world of their day the name they bore, with pride and devotion to the point of death, was Jesus. Indeed there were Hebraic structured Christians in those early years, and their existence is recorded, but their concern was with the ritualization of Judaism, in the recognition of such festivals as Passover, and the Sabbath, not in any fascination with the Name. The Jewish name for God was as alien to them as were pagan rites. They bore no resemblance to the artificially created religion of today which we call Watchtower-ism.
In fact attention to the Sacred Name is purely a modern phenomenon. By the start of the nineteen twenties at least three men began a "restoration" of the Sacred Name in regard to prayer and worship, Andrew Dugger, Clarence Dodd, and Squire Traina, who in 1922, started a group called the Assembly of Jehovah, which advocated the use of the name. He published pamphlets to this effect. He was not in any way connected with the WTS. In fact the group he identified with was the Church of God.
By 1935, when the then WT president Rutherford, expressed his interest in this name, we know of at least three groups who were already into their second decade of this belief having been given prominence. In one of those few moments of sobriety that Rutherford effected, he admitted coming across the name Jehovah. Of course he does not tell us where, he came across this, but quite likely it was one of Traina's pamphlets. Somehow it struck a cord in the deepest recesses of Rutherford's psyche, and, claiming a divine revelation while reading Isa 43:10, invented the identity that marks the current WTS, "Jehovah's Witnesses". That Rutherford was violating even the most basic principles of bible interpretation is totally ignored. With far greater financial resources than that of these Sacred Name groups, Rutherford began his relentless propagandizing of his new found belief. In this he somehow suggested a sense of originality to his claims.
Improvising his theology as he went along, Rutherford invented the most fantasmagorical applications of the word "jehovah". Evidently the message of the hour was neither the redemption that is in Christ, or even the Primacy of the Father, but the "vindication" of this name, jehovah, an issue unknown to Christ, or even in a modern context, Rutherford's mentor, CT Russell. Even the Eden incident was invested with the determinative of this name. The gospel to be preached was not the one that Paul preached, that Christ died for our sins and rose again,[1 Cor 15:1] and which was nominative of apostolic Christianity, but that of something called "jehovah's kingdom"
This undiluted humbug, entrenched in the minds of the R&F, has been successfully induced only by the constant and mesmerizing effect of WT literature, the reading and application of which is skillfully inculcated as incumbent on the R&F. The invocation of the name jehovah is somehow considered of sacramental benefit, as if its very usage ensures religious distinction.
In this respect, the WT Leadership have invented a completely new religion, courtesy of a drunken lout and bigot of the first water, which, with its tenuous beliefs and impermanent doctrines, brings dishonour not only to the Son, but the Father as well.
Cheers
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10
What's the intent of Mat.23:1-3 ?
by Hoping4Change inthen jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: the scribes and the pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.
(mat.23:1-3 nasb).
i've been wondering a lot about what these verses.
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moggy lover
It is possible that Christ was distinguishing between authority and practice. In the previous chapter He had just confronted the Pharisees and exposed much of their hypocrisy and lack of faith. Their purely intellectual approach to matters of spiritual concern made them singularly inappropriate as mentors to a people seeking value based on such spirituality.
The crowds had heard this exchange, and now in Chp 23, Jesus turns to them and warns them about the things that needed to be avoided. The authority of the Pharisees was not a matter of concern to Him, since He was neither Anarchist or impractical Rebel. The Seat of Moses was both a reality and a metaphor. A recent archaeological find at a site called Chorazin [mentioned in the NT] has unearthed almost an entire 1C synagogue. You can clearly see benches crafted into the side of the structure placed their for dignitaries, while the general assembly may have sat on mats or carpets. From that position of authority the attenuated speaker would expound on "Moses" or the Torah, hence the development of the metaphor "speaking from Moses' seat"
Many of these Pharisees saw themselves as the Good Guys. They perceived themselves as holding the line against radicals, and liberals, like the despised Sadducees, and all manner of anti-Torah misfits. This was not the matter of concern to Christ.
What they taught, and what they practiced, accouterments that developed from their teaching, was indeed a concern. When they spoke on the Law they were fulfilling a function. Thus Jesus said: "All they tell you [which is from the Torah, expounded from the Seat of Moses, is good, so] observe it". However their own teachings, which were an unnecessary addition to the Torah, and which constituted burdens to their hearers, were products of themselves and did not constitute righteousness. These practices were what Christ condemned.
Cheers
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1878 Herald of the Morning PDF
by cabasilas inrecently, i obtained photocopies of issues of herald of the morning for the year 1878 and 1879. the issues i have for 1878 are from june to december.
i think there were some issues issued earlier that year but i've been unable to verify that or obtain any copies.
for those who do not know, the herald of the morning was the magazine c.t.
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moggy lover
Great stuff. Thanks again. I am awaiting the next volume. Keep up the good work and take care.
Between you and Atlantis, our Chief Archival Overseer, I ask: "How the hell can we lose?"
Cheers
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44
Which JWD posters have Secret Superpowers???
by Kudra indon't worry you can tell us here- no one knows your true identity.
i can make vodka out of water.
and wine out of water, though vodka out of water is a little more in demand in certain circles.
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moggy lover
I can walk down the street any time I want and turn into a bank.
And just to show I'm super powerful, I can even turn into a bar, or even a barbershop.
Cheers
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31
Ridiculous JW superstitions
by B_Deserter ini'm not talking about the stuff you hear at the kingdom hall, i'm talking about the "experiences" you were told of by people you knew.
the big one for me was demons.
so many people i know had experiences with them.
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moggy lover
Not only demonic intervention, but angelic as well, has passed into the mindset of WT mythology. Several tales, spiced by embellishments, were making the rounds in WT congregations back in the 70s when I was in.
I recall this particular incident, concerning a dear old thing, who was friend of a friend, of a friend of the narrator, and who was on the door-to-door service, when the door she eventually called on had this rather grim and grizzly man who, disheveled in appearance, had hidden his right hand behind him. He had evidently just killed his wife, and was departing when he answered the door. His initial impulse was to lash out with his knife and silence any potential witness [if you pardon the pun] to his dastardly deed. But he was thwarted because he swore he saw, standing beside this dear old thing, a personage of such shining demeanor and gait, that he collapsed and confessed. The elders were quickly summoned and the grateful police acknowledged the sterling job rendered by said dear old thing. I am not sure how the story ended, but variations saw the copper either converted to the WT cause, or the murderer himself, while in incarceration, becoming one.
Cheers
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33
Just reviewing my years of non-appointment as an elder.
by AK - Jeff ini had 'reached out' to be an elder for a decade before i finally understood the reasons why i was not, nor would i ever be one.. each visit of the co, my name was on the list of discussion.
i know this because i was told by both co's and local elders.
the vote was always close, sometimes i missed the cut due to 'low hours' on the part of my wife or daughter, othertimes due to some variation in the way the wts was looking at particular 'requirements'.
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moggy lover
Great stuff, AK-J, but believe you me, you missed out on nothing by not being an elder in the WT system. I had the misfortune to be one for ten years, and it was the single feature that eventually led to my being disillusioned. As long as I was among the faceless R&F, I actually enjoyed being one of the "gang". But becoming an elder opened my eyes in ways no other action would have.
The role of the elder within the WT Imperium is a curious one. Despite the posturing about like attenuated peacocks that many elders effect, and despite the sprouting of suitably obtuse phrases, evidently done to impress the impressionable, the role of the WT elder is no more than that of being theological eunuchs.Incapable of even the most basic of individual enterprise, unschooled in the rigours of biblical ideology and debate, and totally ignorant of the disciplines required for competence in such research, their only function is that of being castrated mouthpieces echoing, with varying degrees of fanaticism, the interminable stream of directives emanating from WT HQ. No thinking is required, because these directives are not designed for thinking out or meditating on, they are simply to be obeyed. The WT does not give its coteries enough information to think, it simply gives them enough to be obeyed.
In this respect, the WTS resembles not so much a religion, as it does an instrument of power. A power that is exercised from a centralized point of Absolute Authority, and delegated, through articulated links of command, to willing acolytes all along the power structure. The trick in being a successful elder is not intelligence, for this is a potential threat to the Centralized Authority, since they have none,but the trick in in giving credence to the Unspoken Rule. This Centralized Authority is to be regarded as both, Unquestioned and Unquestionable. They are elitist, secretive, and self perpetuating, which means that no one within the orbit of this power structure has any influence on who or how this Centralized Authority is constructed.
To parse a couplet born of equally dictatorial systems, "When the GB tells you to jump, you don't ask "why" you ask "how high" "
One of the stratagems employed by this Centralized Authority to ensure their survival at the top, is assessing the subservience of the potential elder. In this respect, you obviously did not understand the abject inferiority of your position. You did not abase yourself, kiss the ring, or tug the forelock. Most dangerous of all, you were literate enough to use your mind.
But the brutal truth is that it is better to be free and theologically virile on the outside, than to be a eunuch in the house of patent evil.
Cheers
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Need audo of Franz Gilead Grad speach debunking Gov Body
by Wasanelder Once inhey everyone,.
where can i find a copy of the talk that freddy gave at gilead graduation attacking the idea of a gov body?
here is the link to the transcript, http://www.freeminds.org/history/franzorg1976.htm i want to use it in a video.. i tried the e-mail address at the bottome of the page but its dead.. thanks.. w.once.
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moggy lover
I am pretty sure that, because that talk was so god-awful bad, that no audio transcription was made. If there was, it will either have been wiped clean or stored away in the bunkers so deep that not even the Purest of the Pure among the Acolytes, the ones who Tend the Flame and Keep the Secrets, have access to it.
Your best bet may be to try and contact Ray Franz at his Commentary Press site. We owe him a great debt for giving us a written transcript of that lecture.
Cheers
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Bad biblical names for a child
by erandir inthe practice of choosing biblical names for children is present in many forms of christianity.
in latin america, countless boys are named jesus either as a first name or second name.
there is even that singer jesus jones.
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moggy lover
As AnnOMaly said, "Mahershallhashbaz" can be something of a mouthful, but I am pretty sure I remember an actor on TV with that name. A couple of years ago Aussie TV had a popular show called "Threat Matrix" in which one of the actors had that name. Nah, don't worry, he was one of the good guys.
If I am not very much mistaken, that name, running into six syllables, is the longest word in the Bible.
Cheers
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300 million people worldwide now have broadband - Watch out WT!!!
by truthseeker ingreat article and another whammy for wt defenses.... http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2102652,00.html.
china overtaking us for fast internet access as africa gets left behind.
one in five people in the world has high-speed lines but the gap is growing.
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moggy lover
Evidently the growth of the world wide web in Korea is beginning to have an adverse on WT statistics in that country. Their growth rate is barely 1%, now totally 93 000 followers.
Cheers